[eDebate] Omri, etc.

[Maggie Berthiaume]

I realize my statement "this is easy to fix" appears to be a tech  
assessment rather than a norm assessment.  Sorry about that - as  
Omri, Michael and others accurately point out, I am not qualified to  
talk about this particular area of tech.  I meant that statement that  
as a consideration of what we should try to do - and I absolutely  
think whoever has to do it should be highly compensated for their  
time.  There's no reason Phil should have to suffer for our  
collective mistakes - but probably Kacey shouldn't have to either,  
given that she didn't write the post in question.

I was going to put that in my last post, but it seemed awkward given  
the smaller point I was (trying to) make.  Now I realize the absence  
leaves me essentially demanding free labor (on behalf of Kacey, but  
still free labor), which was certainly not my intent.  I'm okay with  
the paying for post-removal idea. I also think that if we get some  
sort of system in place to remove posts, everyone who supported it  
should donate to edebate even if they don't have a particular post  
they want removed.  I'm certainly happy to - it's a great service.

I'll leave the tech question to others, but Eber's post (and a few  
notable others from edebate I searched for last night that have been  
removed) seem to imply this is do-able.  If the answer is "posts can  
be removed, but once google has them it's all over," that would be  
something I imagine would be useful for people to know.

MB

On Apr 3, 2008, at 1:12 AM, Omri Ceren wrote:


> And if you think law firms are obsessed with reputation, may I suggest

> that activists and lobbyists are also not insensitive to reputation?

>

>  From what I can tell edebate is powered by GNU Mailman 2.1. The  

> archive

> backend is managed through Pipermail. The thing about Pipermail is  

> that

> it sucks. It's clunky and slow and in need of a total rewrite. But  

> still

> - it shouldn't take Kerp more than 30 minutes to track down the  

> emails,

> nuke them, and then rebuild the archive.

>

> That wouldn't fix how those emails still stored on the mirrored

> archives. And it certainly wouldn't do anything about the copies on  

> the

> Google and Yahoo and Live caches. And he can't remove those because  

> he's

> not the original author of the emails. So I have to disagree with

> Margaret about how "this is easy to fix."

>

> No one is even sure if a listowner *can* get Google to remove someone

> else's emails from a listserv cache. Companies like Google are

> notoriously bad about responding to user complaints. You can get away

> with that when you run a platform that people get to use for free.

> Because honestly - what kind of person has the surreal sense of

> entitlement that it would take to aggressively attack someone else who

> provides them with years and years of a free service.

>

> On that note - I haven't seen a particular rush to hit Kerp's tip jar

> lately. Server space and bandwidth cost money that come out of  

> Kerpen's

> pocket, after all. To say nothing of the time and energy that it takes

> to do grunt work like cleaning out spam filters, getting in touch with

> the hosting company when the server hiccups, etc. Instead of tips,

> though, he gets personal attacks.  And so I also have to disagree with

> Brent that "no one disputes" that Kerpen deserves thanks for literally

> years and years of totally voluntary contributions to the community.

>

> Omri.

>

> -- 

>

> --------------

> PhD Candidate, USC Annenberg School for Communication

> Email: ceren at usc.edu

> Mobile: 412-512-7256

> --------------

>

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Maggie Berthiaume
Director of Debate
Lexington High School
maggiekb at gmail.com



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