[eDebate] Challenge to the Community

[Andy Ellis]

nope persuasion is cool, though clearly not enough...how do you make the
measures to increase access,particpation, and graduation while persuasion is
taking its course.....

On 4/5/07, Josh Hoe <jbhdb8 at gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Oh and first, we keep trying to convince people who are against

> Affirmative Action why they are wrong until enough of them vote FOR

> affirmative action policies...I try to do that basically with every person I

> meet who I find out is against Affirmative Action.  Or were you wanting

> something more radical than persuasion?

>

> Josh

>

>

> On 4/4/07, Andy Ellis <andy.edebate at gmail.com> wrote:

> >

> > so if not the law then how?

> >

> > On 4/4/07, Jim Hanson <hansonjb at whitman.edu > wrote:

> > >

> > >  unfortunately no, I don't.

> > >

> > > many states have passed laws banning public funding for policies that

> > > give what I call "equalizing" treatment to those who are not white.

> > >

> > > with o'connor leaving the supreme court, there is now a majority

> > > highly likely ready to get rid of the weak affirmative action policies

> > > endorsed by the court since baake. that means, as I understand it, school

> > > (as well as other institution) policies providing "equalizing" treatment (eg

> > > financial aid targeted specifcally for ethnic minorities) is going to be

> > > illegal. private schools like whitman will be able to get away with it

> > > (unless the court takes up public funding support to such schools) and

> > > public schools can play games like california has where the top 10% in each

> > > school get entrance into the uc system (which assures some but not enough

> > > diversity).

> > >

> > > in a nutshell, the law cannot help, as practiced by the

> > > reagan-bush-bush appointees. indeed, it will hurt and we're about to see

> > > that very clearly.

> > >

> > > law as advocated by most affs in debate rounds would help--I

> > > absolutely disagree with characterizations that overruling milliken would do

> > > nothing just as i disagreed with claims that the civil rights act didn't

> > > help/change anything--it did. it ain't perfect but it is part of needed

> > > change.

> > >

> > > law as handled by more carter-clinton type appointees would also help.

> > > that depends on the results of the 2008 election.

> > >

> > > in my ideal world, justices brennan and marshall would hold sway in

> > > the courts--those of you opposed to the use of the law as an instrument of

> > > the man/the state might enjoy some of their opinions rejecting the death

> > > penalty, payment of any amount of money to vote, among others. law as

> > > practiced from that perspective would make a dramatic difference.

> > >

> > > jim :)

> > > hansonjb at whitman.edu

> > > ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Andy Ellis

> > > <andy.edebate at gmail.com>

> > > *To:* Jim Hanson <hansonjb at whitman.edu>

> > > *Cc:* edebate at ndtceda.com

> > >  *Sent:* Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:13 PM

> > > *Subject:* Re: [eDebate] Challenge to the Community

> > >

> > >

> > > Does that mean you think that institutions that dont meet those

> > > criteria, that legal action could be a good strategy?

> > >

> > > On 4/4/07, Jim Hanson < hansonjb at whitman.edu> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >  not really at least for whitman.

> > > >

> > > > whitman provides a lot of financial aid.

> > > >

> > > > the barrier to getting into whitman is good grades/good sat scores

> > > > (which excludes all kinds of students) and that ethnic minorities frequently

> > > > aren't all that plused about coming to southeast washington small town. some

> > > > of that barrier may be defacto racial exclusion but I kind of doubt it--the

> > > > school is very proactive in seeking more ethnic diversity including

> > > > providing quite a bit of ethnic diversity based financial aid. again, it is

> > > > not perfect by any means but this is a pretty liberal school and there have

> > > > been complaints that too much financial aid is given to ethnically diverse

> > > > individuals (at the expense of upper middle and middle income white

> > > > students). I obviously don't agree with those complaints but they are

> > > > indicative of why legal action is not necessary against whitman (nor would

> > > > it have a chance of winning).

> > > >

> > > > jim :)

> > > > hansonjb at whitman.edu

> > > >

> > > > ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Andy Ellis

> > > > <andy.edebate at gmail.com>

> > > > *To:* Josh Hoe <jbhdb8 at gmail.com>

> > > > *Cc:* Jim Hanson <hansonjb at whitman.edu> ; edebate at ndtceda.com

> > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 04, 2007 7:00 PM

> > > > *Subject:* Re: [eDebate] Challenge to the Community

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > i will be brief.

> > > >

> > > > All of the benefits that jim and josh enumerate to intercolegiate

> > > > policy debate seem to be material reasons why my case for legal action to

> > > > access the community makes sense. Material realities are excluding

> > > > particpation and access to levers of good memeber of community status and

> > > > graduate school preperation. Thats a material educational  denial based on

> > > > defacto racial exclusion.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 4/4/07, Josh Hoe < jbhdb8 at gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Another example, Rachel Saloom works at a major law firm in

> > > > > Atlanta - but has used her position to get on the recruiting committee and

> > > > > work to increase race and gender diversity in that law firm......So, at the

> > > > > same time she uses her debate training to help her be a better lawyer she

> > > > > also uses things she debated about to improve her law firm.

> > > > >

> > > > > Josh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >  On 4/4/07, Jim Hanson < hansonjb at whitman.edu > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >  if you want a leftist revolution--then, yes, there are better

> > > > > > uses of the millions spent on debate each year.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if you want students who become successful, contributing members

> > > > > > of our community--then debate is one of the most fantastic activities I am

> > > > > > aware of.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > three alums of our program joined me at the ndt and went on and

> > > > > > on and on about how much debate had transformed their lives, made them

> > > > > > successful, and gave them self-fufillment unmatched by any other thing they

> > > > > > do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > many of our alumni consider debate hands down the most

> > > > > > educational "course" they took while at whitman college. several say

> > > > > > that they learned more from debate than in all their other courses.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and these folks are making changes in the world including

> > > > > > directly reducing sexual and racial harassment at companies, including

> > > > > > gay/lesbian perspectives in company planning, outreach to disadvantaged

> > > > > > youth, environmental planning and activism, etc. and NO they are not all

> > > > > > white, straight males. they represent a multitude of differing ethnic,

> > > > > > sexual, gender, income characteristics.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > they are not revolutionizing the world by ending defacto

> > > > > > segregration.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > but they are making quiet, steady changes that MAKE A

> > > > > > DIFFERENCE.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > jim :)

> > > > > > hansonjb at whitman.edu

> > > > > >  ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Beth Skinner

> > > > > > <beth.skinner at gmail.com>

> > > > > > *To:* Steven D'Amico <stevendamico at gmail.com>

> > > > > > *Cc:* edebate at ndtceda.com

> > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 04, 2007 5:43 PM

> > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [eDebate] Challenge to the Community

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To me, the larger point is that when we select law-focused,

> > > > > > USFG-focused resolutions one of the reasons people give is that it will help

> > > > > > us to be better advocates if we understand the intricacies of government

> > > > > > action.  If this is a good reason then we SHOULD ask how people are going to

> > > > > > use a season's worth of education in practical ways.  If the reaction is

> > > > > > 'well, we really can't accomplish change this way' then why do we keep

> > > > > > selecting these topics?  How many years does it take to learn the futility

> > > > > > of activism through state channels?  If the reaction is 'we're too lazy to

> > > > > > do actually do anything with the knowledge we gain' or 'I just like sounding

> > > > > > good in rounds when I read cool cards' then that is sad.  Millions of

> > > > > > dollars are spent each year on college debate.  Maybe there are better uses

> > > > > > for that money.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Beth

> > > > > >

> > > > > > p.s. congratulations to Omri on making Andy seem like the

> > > > > > reasonable one - not a lot of people are capable of that

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 4/4/07, Steven D'Amico < stevendamico at gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > does anyone else find this similar to Stalin arguing with

> > > > > > > Hitler? As an Italian I'll just side with whoever wins.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >  On 4/4/07, Andy Ellis < andy.edebate at gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thank you Omri, i do indeed feel more informed. But really

> > > > > > > > this is the last time...so sad...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 4/4/07, Omri Ceren < ceren at usc.edu > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > OK. Now we're going to discuss "tone".

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When I said "seriously", it worked because I made your

> > > > > > > > > position seem

> > > > > > > > > obviously absurd and kind of stupid. I accomplished that

> > > > > > > > > by juxtaposing

> > > > > > > > > and re-characterizing your positions in such a way as to

> > > > > > > > > make you seem

> > > > > > > > > nonsensical.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > When you said "seriously", you followed it up by whining

> > > > > > > > > that "the

> > > > > > > > > debates you see are more ideologically determined and

> > > > > > > > > constrained than

> > > > > > > > > the ones i see." This, to put it mildly, failed to really

> > > > > > > > > provide the

> > > > > > > > > rhetorical umpff that you were looking for.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Let's try this again (but, honestly, this is going to have

> > > > > > > > > to be the

> > > > > > > > > last time): the conceit by which you take it upon yourself

> > > > > > > > > to challenge

> > > > > > > > > the debate community to attack itself emerges from a

> > > > > > > > > combination of

> > > > > > > > > ignorance, smugness, and pretension that makes me almost

> > > > > > > > > feel bad about

> > > > > > > > > publicly mocking you. You need the debate community to be

> > > > > > > > > as dull and

> > > > > > > > > unnuanced as you are so that you can continue in this

> > > > > > > > > pathetic moral

> > > > > > > > > exhibitionism, where your desperate need to convince

> > > > > > > > > yourself of your

> > > > > > > > > own superiority comes together with an inchoate sense of

> > > > > > > > > what counts as

> > > > > > > > > political activism.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You really should stop pretending that you have either the

> > > > > > > > > authority or

> > > > > > > > > credibility to challenge anybody to do anything. It's

> > > > > > > > > getting to be kind

> > > > > > > > > of sad.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Omri.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On 4/4/2007 3:26 PM Andy Ellis wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Seriously? are you really saying people dont make that

> > > > > > > > > answer and win a

> > > > > > > > > > lot of debates on it? The debates you see are more

> > > > > > > > > ideologically

> > > > > > > > > > determined and constrained than the ones i see. And yes

> > > > > > > > > at least those

> > > > > > > > > > folks who debated milliken have a great legal knowledge

> > > > > > > > > to provide to

> > > > > > > > > > their campuses...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* < ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     Seriously? This year's Milliken affirmatives

> > > > > > > > > advocated using the USSC to

> > > > > > > > > >     address de facto segregation in school districts.

> > > > > > > > > You think that this

> > > > > > > > > >     means that they said that the "the law is the best

> > > > > > > > > way to end racial

> > > > > > > > > >     discrimination in education", and in response you

> > > > > > > > > petulantly chellenged

> > > > > > > > > >     the community to sue... itself. And you can't

> > > > > > > > > understand why this is an

> > > > > > > > > >     example of how you don't get nuance?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     Seriously?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     Omri.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     On 4/4/2007 3:17 PM Andy Ellis wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >      > Also, what is it exactly that i am doing that you

> > > > > > > > > are elaborating a

> > > > > > > > > >      > community critique of?...like is this a criticism

> > > > > > > > > that goes andy

> > > > > > > > > >     ellis

> > > > > > > > > >      > is a wacko  or does it actualy engage the work

> > > > > > > > > being done on the

> > > > > > > > > >     ground

> > > > > > > > > >      > in baltimore to further this goal,if its the

> > > > > > > > > former i know that

> > > > > > > > > >     stuff if

> > > > > > > > > >      > its the latter, id like to hear your version of

> > > > > > > > > that criticism....

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      > On 4/4/07, *Andy Ellis* < andy.edebate at gmail.com

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto:andy.edebate at gmail.com >

> > > > > > > > > >      > <mailto: andy.edebate at gmail.com <mailto:

> > > > > > > > > andy.edebate at gmail.com>>>

> > > > > > > > > >     wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >     So tell me omri (and i dont ask this with the

> > > > > > > > > lazy revolutionary

> > > > > > > > > >      >     bombast i often espouse) what have you

> > > > > > > > > learned from a year of

> > > > > > > > > >      >     milliken debates that you are now using and

> > > > > > > > > working with your

> > > > > > > > > >      >     debaters on to address racial discrimination

> > > > > > > > > in education?

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >     On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* < ceren at usc.edu

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto: ceren at usc.edu> <mailto: ceren at usc.edu

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto: ceren at usc.edu>>> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         No. You just don't get it.

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         There's actually a relatively robust

> > > > > > > > > criticism to be made

> > > > > > > > > >     of you,

> > > > > > > > > >      >         tracing how risk-free revolutionary

> > > > > > > > > posturing can hold

> > > > > > > > > >     the good

> > > > > > > > > >      >         hostage

> > > > > > > > > >      >         to the perfect while using aggressive

> > > > > > > > > smugness to insulate

> > > > > > > > > >      >         intellectual

> > > > > > > > > >      >         laziness. So for instance, no one of any

> > > > > > > > > intellectual

> > > > > > > > > >     care would

> > > > > > > > > >      >         claim

> > > > > > > > > >      >         to have seen the best debaters in the

> > > > > > > > > country claiming

> > > > > > > > > >     that "law

> > > > > > > > > >      >         is [the

> > > > > > > > > >      >         best method]... of pursuing racial

> > > > > > > > > justice in education".

> > > > > > > > > >     First

> > > > > > > > > >      >         of all,

> > > > > > > > > >      >         outside of a very precise use in

> > > > > > > > > pyschoanalytic critical

> > > > > > > > > >     literature,

> > > > > > > > > >      >         "the Law" isn't a meaningful category.

> > > > > > > > > There are multiple

> > > > > > > > > >      >         branches and

> > > > > > > > > >      >         levels of government empowered to enforce

> > > > > > > > > legislative and

> > > > > > > > > >     judicial

> > > > > > > > > >      >         decisions - and while I know that most of

> > > > > > > > > the debates

> > > > > > > > > >     that you

> > > > > > > > > >      >         saw this

> > > > > > > > > >      >         year didn't really think that those

> > > > > > > > > distinctions mattered,

> > > > > > > > > >      >         that's kind

> > > > > > > > > >      >         of my point too.

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         Anyway, like I said - there's a

> > > > > > > > > relatively robust

> > > > > > > > > >     criticism of your

> > > > > > > > > >      >         personal sensibility, political ideology,

> > > > > > > > > and interpersonal

> > > > > > > > > >      >         community.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         But I doubt you'd get it.

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         Omri.

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         On 4/4/2007 3:00 PM Andy Ellis wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  Uh right, i will continue to do the

> > > > > > > > > work outside of

> > > > > > > > > >     the legal

> > > > > > > > > >      >         structure

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  and in it when necessary to increase

> > > > > > > > > minority access

> > > > > > > > > >     to and

> > > > > > > > > >      >         completion

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  of college. I dont doubt the  efficacy

> > > > > > > > > of my methods,

> > > > > > > > > >     and sure

> > > > > > > > > >      >         i didnt

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  see the same debates you saw but my

> > > > > > > > > term heard and i

> > > > > > > > > >     saw many

> > > > > > > > > >      >         teams

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  adamently defending the necessity of

> > > > > > > > > using the law to

> > > > > > > > > >      >         challenege racial

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  discrimination and i am simply asking

> > > > > > > > > those that made the

> > > > > > > > > >      >         claims to

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  follow up on them.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  Furthermore i understand debaters cant

> > > > > > > > > sue for other

> > > > > > > > > >     peoples

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  inclusion(in a basic sense of the term

> > > > > > > > > i think there

> > > > > > > > > >     could be

> > > > > > > > > >      >         a claimant

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  who suggested that they where damaged

> > > > > > > > > by the lack of

> > > > > > > > > >     minority

> > > > > > > > > >      >         inclusion

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  in the community, but im probably

> > > > > > > > > wrong like you said

> > > > > > > > > >     im not

> > > > > > > > > >      >         in the

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  highly technical debates) but there

> > > > > > > > > are legal cases and

> > > > > > > > > >      >         movements that

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  debaters can contribute their skills

> > > > > > > > > and dedication to

> > > > > > > > > >     and

> > > > > > > > > >      >         furthermore

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  if through those super high end

> > > > > > > > > debates you saw

> > > > > > > > > >     provide the

> > > > > > > > > >      >         training

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  they promise then it seems as if you

> > > > > > > > > can figure out how to

> > > > > > > > > >      >         uses cases on

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  your campus as entree points to legal

> > > > > > > > > justice movements.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  or maybe all those things i heard in

> > > > > > > > > debates where

> > > > > > > > > >     just lies

> > > > > > > > > >      >         and nods to

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  racial inclusion?

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* <

> > > > > > > > > ceren at usc.edu

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto: ceren at usc.edu> <mailto: ceren at usc.edu<mailto:

> > > > > > > > > ceren at usc.edu>>

> > > > > > > > > >      >         <mailto: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto: ceren at usc.edu <mailto: ceren at usc.edu>>>>

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     Andy,

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     Surely you should be leading this

> > > > > > > > > effort, what with

> > > > > > > > > >     all of the

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     topic-specific research that I'm

> > > > > > > > > sure you did this

> > > > > > > > > >     year.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         And with all

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     the high-tech policy rounds that

> > > > > > > > > you judged and

> > > > > > > > > >     scouted.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     Omri.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     On 4/4/2007 9:55 AM Andy Ellis

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > So after a year of hearing

> > > > > > > > > debates about how the

> > > > > > > > > >     law is

> > > > > > > > > >      >         not only

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     a good

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > means of pursuing racial justice

> > > > > > > > > in education,

> > > > > > > > > >     but the

> > > > > > > > > >      >         best method, i

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > have a challenge to offer. Use

> > > > > > > > > the skills that

> > > > > > > > > >     you have

> > > > > > > > > >      >         acquired in

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > debating about the law to craft

> > > > > > > > > a strategy that

> > > > > > > > > >     uses the

> > > > > > > > > >      >         law to

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     increase

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > meaningful minority

> > > > > > > > > participation in the

> > > > > > > > > >     community. The

> > > > > > > > > >      >         NCAA has been

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > sued for admissions requirements

> > > > > > > > > that preference

> > > > > > > > > >     test

> > > > > > > > > >      >         scores and

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     gpa, if

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > there is precedent in that or

> > > > > > > > > other cases there

> > > > > > > > > >     should

> > > > > > > > > >      >         be a case

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     to sue

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > your university or your debate

> > > > > > > > > team or ceda or

> > > > > > > > > >     the ndt,

> > > > > > > > > >      >         if they have

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > those standards. But dont let my

> > > > > > > > > suggestions

> > > > > > > > > >     limit you,

> > > > > > > > > >      >         many many

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     many

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > of you have researched and

> > > > > > > > > learned a whole lot about

> > > > > > > > > >      >         using the

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     law to

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > fight for racial justice in

> > > > > > > > > education, you im

> > > > > > > > > >     sure can

> > > > > > > > > >      >         come up with

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > something on your own.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      >

> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > eDebate mailing list

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto: eDebate at www.ndtceda.com > <mailto:eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto: eDebate at www.ndtceda.com>>

> > > > > > > > > >      >         <mailto: eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto: eDebate at www.ndtceda.com> <mailto: eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto:eDebate at www.ndtceda.com>>>

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > No virus found in this incoming

> > > > > > > > > message.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >      > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus

> > > > > > > > > Database: 268.18.26/746 -

> > > > > > > > > >      >         Release Date:

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     4/4/2007 1:09 PM

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     --

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     --------------

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School

> > > > > > > > > for Communication

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto:ceren at usc.edu <mailto: ceren at usc.edu>>

> > > > > > > > > <mailto:

> > > > > > > > > >      >         ceren at usc.edu <mailto: ceren at usc.edu>

> > > > > > > > > <mailto:

> > > > > > > > > >     ceren at usc.edu <mailto: ceren at usc.edu>>>

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     Mobile: 412-512-7256

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >     --------------

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  No virus found in this incoming

> > > > > > > > > message.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > > > > > > >      >         >  Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database:

> > > > > > > > > 268.18.26/746 - Release

> > > > > > > > > >      >         Date: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         --

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >         --------------

> > > > > > > > > >      >         PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for

> > > > > > > > > Communication

> > > > > > > > > >      >         Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     <mailto: ceren at usc.edu <mailto: ceren at usc.edu>>

> > > > > > > > > >      >         Mobile: 412-512-7256

> > > > > > > > > >      >         --------------

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >      >

> > > > > > > > > >      > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > > > > > > > >      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > > > > > > >      > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/746

> > > > > > > > > - Release Date:

> > > > > > > > > >     4/4/2007 1:09 PM

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     --

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >     --------------

> > > > > > > > > >     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication

> > > > > > > > > >     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>

> > > > > > > > > >     Mobile: 412-512-7256

> > > > > > > > > >     --------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/746 -

> > > > > > > > > Release Date: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --------------

> > > > > > > > > PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication

> > > > > > > > > Email: ceren at usc.edu

> > > > > > > > > Mobile: 412-512-7256

> > > > > > > > > --------------

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________

> > > > > > > > eDebate mailing list

> > > > > > > > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > > > > > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > _______________________________________________

> > > > > > > eDebate mailing list

> > > > > > > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > > > > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >  ------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > _______________________________________________

> > > > > > eDebate mailing list

> > > > > > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > > > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > _______________________________________________

> > > > > > eDebate mailing list

> > > > > > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > > > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > _______________________________________________

> > > > > eDebate mailing list

> > > > > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > _______________________________________________

> > > > eDebate mailing list

> > > > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > > > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > eDebate mailing list

> > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com

> > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate

> >

>

>

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