[eDebate] Challenge to the Community

[Andy Ellis]

Also, what is it exactly that i am doing that you are elaborating a
community critique of?...like is this a criticism that goes andy ellis is a
wacko  or does it actualy engage the work being done on the ground in
baltimore to further this goal,if its the former i know that stuff if its
the latter, id like to hear your version of that criticism....

On 4/4/07, Andy Ellis <andy.edebate at gmail.com> wrote:

>

> So tell me omri (and i dont ask this with the lazy revolutionary bombast i

> often espouse) what have you learned from a year of milliken debates that

> you are now using and working with your debaters on to address racial

> discrimination in education?

>

> On 4/4/07, Omri Ceren <ceren at usc.edu> wrote:

> >

> > No. You just don't get it.

> >

> > There's actually a relatively robust criticism to be made of you,

> > tracing how risk-free revolutionary posturing can hold the good hostage

> > to the perfect while using aggressive smugness to insulate intellectual

> > laziness. So for instance, no one of any intellectual care would claim

> > to have seen the best debaters in the country claiming that "law is [the

> > best method]... of pursuing racial justice in education". First of all,

> > outside of a very precise use in pyschoanalytic critical literature,

> > "the Law" isn't a meaningful category. There are multiple branches and

> > levels of government empowered to enforce legislative and judicial

> > decisions - and while I know that most of the debates that you saw this

> > year didn't really think that those distinctions mattered, that's kind

> > of my point too.

> >

> > Anyway, like I said - there's a relatively robust criticism of your

> > personal sensibility, political ideology, and interpersonal community.

> > But I doubt you'd get it.

> >

> > Omri.

> >

> >

> > On 4/4/2007 3:00 PM Andy Ellis wrote:

> > > Uh right, i will continue to do the work outside of the legal

> > structure

> > > and in it when necessary to increase minority access to and completion

> > > of college. I dont doubt the  efficacy of my methods, and sure i didnt

> > > see the same debates you saw but my term heard and i saw many teams

> > > adamently defending the necessity of using the law to challenege

> > racial

> > > discrimination and i am simply asking those that made the claims to

> > > follow up on them.

> > >

> > > Furthermore i understand debaters cant sue for other peoples

> > > inclusion(in a basic sense of the term i think there could be a

> > claimant

> > > who suggested that they where damaged by the lack of minority

> > inclusion

> > > in the community, but im probably wrong like you said im not in the

> > > highly technical debates) but there are legal cases and movements that

> > > debaters can contribute their skills and dedication to and furthermore

> > > if through those super high end debates you saw provide the training

> > > they promise then it seems as if you can figure out how to uses cases

> > on

> > > your campus as entree points to legal justice movements.

> > >

> > > or maybe all those things i heard in debates where just lies and nods

> > to

> > > racial inclusion?

> > >

> > > On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* < ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>> wrote:

> > >

> > >     Andy,

> > >

> > >     Surely you should be leading this effort, what with all of the

> > >     topic-specific research that I'm sure you did this year. And with

> > all

> > >     the high-tech policy rounds that you judged and scouted.

> > >

> > >     Omri.

> > >

> > >     On 4/4/2007 9:55 AM Andy Ellis wrote:

> > >      > So after a year of hearing debates about how the law is not

> > only

> > >     a good

> > >      > means of pursuing racial justice in education, but the best

> > method, i

> > >      > have a challenge to offer. Use the skills that you have

> > acquired in

> > >      > debating about the law to craft a strategy that uses the law to

> > >     increase

> > >      > meaningful minority participation in the community. The NCAA

> > has been

> > >      > sued for admissions requirements that preference test scores

> > and

> > >     gpa, if

> > >      > there is precedent in that or other cases there should be a

> > case

> > >     to sue

> > >      > your university or your debate team or ceda or the ndt, if they

> > have

> > >      > those standards. But dont let my suggestions limit you, many

> > many

> > >     many

> > >      > of you have researched and learned a whole lot about using the

> > >     law to

> > >      > fight for racial justice in education, you im sure can come up

> > with

> > >      > something on your own.

> > >      >

> > >      >

> > >      >

> > >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> > Date:

> > >     4/4/2007 1:09 PM

> > >

> > >

> > >     --

> > >

> > >

> > >     --------------

> > >     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication

> > >     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto: ceren at usc.edu>

> > >     Mobile: 412-512-7256

> > >     --------------

> > >

> > >

> > >

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> >

> >

> > --------------

> > PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication

> > Email: ceren at usc.edu

> > Mobile: 412-512-7256

> > --------------

> >

> >

>

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