[eDebate] Challenge to the Community

[Omri Ceren]

Ah! Very clever. See what you did there? It was a little fliparound - 
kind of turn! I guess I was wrong about you.

I don't have a good answer to your question. I worked on our Quirin neg. 
As a direct result, I'm now a passionate public advocate for the 
continued legality of coerced interrogations.

And they say debate can't have real world effects.

Omri.

On 4/4/2007 3:12 PM Andy Ellis wrote:

> So tell me omri (and i dont ask this with the lazy revolutionary bombast 

> i often espouse) what have you learned from a year of milliken debates 

> that you are now using and working with your debaters on to address 

> racial discrimination in education?

> 

> On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* <ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>> wrote:

> 

>     No. You just don't get it.

> 

>     There's actually a relatively robust criticism to be made of you,

>     tracing how risk-free revolutionary posturing can hold the good hostage

>     to the perfect while using aggressive smugness to insulate intellectual

>     laziness. So for instance, no one of any intellectual care would claim

>     to have seen the best debaters in the country claiming that "law is [the

>     best method]... of pursuing racial justice in education". First of all,

>     outside of a very precise use in pyschoanalytic critical literature,

>     "the Law" isn't a meaningful category. There are multiple branches and

>     levels of government empowered to enforce legislative and judicial

>     decisions - and while I know that most of the debates that you saw this

>     year didn't really think that those distinctions mattered, that's kind

>     of my point too.

> 

>     Anyway, like I said - there's a relatively robust criticism of your

>     personal sensibility, political ideology, and interpersonal community.

>     But I doubt you'd get it.

> 

>     Omri.

> 

> 

>     On 4/4/2007 3:00 PM Andy Ellis wrote:

>      > Uh right, i will continue to do the work outside of the legal

>     structure

>      > and in it when necessary to increase minority access to and

>     completion

>      > of college. I dont doubt the  efficacy of my methods, and sure i

>     didnt

>      > see the same debates you saw but my term heard and i saw many teams

>      > adamently defending the necessity of using the law to challenege

>     racial

>      > discrimination and i am simply asking those that made the claims to

>      > follow up on them.

>      >

>      > Furthermore i understand debaters cant sue for other peoples

>      > inclusion(in a basic sense of the term i think there could be a

>     claimant

>      > who suggested that they where damaged by the lack of minority

>     inclusion

>      > in the community, but im probably wrong like you said im not in the

>      > highly technical debates) but there are legal cases and movements

>     that

>      > debaters can contribute their skills and dedication to and

>     furthermore

>      > if through those super high end debates you saw provide the training

>      > they promise then it seems as if you can figure out how to uses

>     cases on

>      > your campus as entree points to legal justice movements.

>      >

>      > or maybe all those things i heard in debates where just lies and

>     nods to

>      > racial inclusion?

>      >

>      > On 4/4/07, *Omri Ceren* < ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>

>     <mailto:ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>>> wrote:

>      >

>      >     Andy,

>      >

>      >     Surely you should be leading this effort, what with all of the

>      >     topic-specific research that I'm sure you did this year. And

>     with all

>      >     the high-tech policy rounds that you judged and scouted.

>      >

>      >     Omri.

>      >

>      >     On 4/4/2007 9:55 AM Andy Ellis wrote:

>      >      > So after a year of hearing debates about how the law is

>     not only

>      >     a good

>      >      > means of pursuing racial justice in education, but the

>     best method, i

>      >      > have a challenge to offer. Use the skills that you have

>     acquired in

>      >      > debating about the law to craft a strategy that uses the

>     law to

>      >     increase

>      >      > meaningful minority participation in the community. The

>     NCAA has been

>      >      > sued for admissions requirements that preference test

>     scores and

>      >     gpa, if

>      >      > there is precedent in that or other cases there should be

>     a case

>      >     to sue

>      >      > your university or your debate team or ceda or the ndt, if

>     they have

>      >      > those standards. But dont let my suggestions limit you,

>     many many

>      >     many

>      >      > of you have researched and learned a whole lot about using the

>      >     law to

>      >      > fight for racial justice in education, you im sure can

>     come up with

>      >      > something on your own.

>      >      >

>      >      >

>      >      >

>      >    

>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>      >      >

>      >      > _______________________________________________

>      >      > eDebate mailing list

>      >      > eDebate at www.ndtceda.com <mailto:eDebate at www.ndtceda.com>

>     <mailto:eDebate at www.ndtceda.com <mailto:eDebate at www.ndtceda.com>>

>      >      > http://www.ndtceda.com/mailman/listinfo/edebate

>      >      >

>      >      >

>      >      >

>      >    

>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> 

>      >      >

>      >      > No virus found in this incoming message.

>      >      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

>      >      > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/746 - Release

>     Date:

>      >     4/4/2007 1:09 PM

>      >

>      >

>      >     --

>      >

>      >

>      >     --------------

>      >     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication

>      >     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu> <mailto:

>     ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>>

>      >     Mobile: 412-512-7256

>      >     --------------

>      >

>      >

>      >

>      >

>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>      >

>      > No virus found in this incoming message.

>      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

>      > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/746 - Release Date:

>     4/4/2007 1:09 PM

> 

> 

>     --

> 

> 

>     --------------

>     PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication

>     Email: ceren at usc.edu <mailto:ceren at usc.edu>

>     Mobile: 412-512-7256

>     --------------

> 

> 

> 

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> 

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/746 - Release Date: 4/4/2007 1:09 PM



-- 


--------------
PhD Student, USC Annenberg School for Communication
Email: ceren at usc.edu
Mobile: 412-512-7256
--------------